BLUE VIEWPOINT
Lately, several churches and TV pastors claim that the tribulation mentioned in Daniel 7 and other books has already happened.
This started some thinking, and that is always dangerous because it tends to generate ideas that upset people. Those ideas are not always right, nor final, but they sure stimulate some interesting conversations.
Why so many "experts"?
What about the Tribulation? We hear that it will last seven years. We hear that it will last 3 1/2 years. We hear that it is over and lasted 1260 years. We hear that the Antichrist will be here. We hear that the Antichrist has already been and gone. We hear that the saints will be raptured to Heaven before it starts. We hear that the saints will not be raptured to Heaven before it starts. We hear that the saints will be persecuted, and we hear that they will not be persecuted because they won't be here. We hear that the tribulation happened in 70 A.D. We hear that it happened between 538 A.D. and 1798 A.D. We hear that it has not happened yet.
Check the source
Enough! Evidently these people haven't read 2 Thessalonians 2
Events prior to the Lord's Second Coming
1Now, dear brothers and sisters, let us clarify some things about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and how we will be gathered to meet him. 2Don't be so easily shaken or alarmed by those who say that the day of the Lord has already begun. Don't believe them, even if they claim to have had a spiritual vision, a revelation, or a letter supposedly from us. 3Don't be fooled by what they say. For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessness is revealed - the one who brings destruction. 4He will exalt himself and defy everything that people call god and every object of worship. He will even sit in the temple of God, claiming that he himself is God.
5Don't you remember that I told you about all this when I was with you? 6And you know what is holding him back, for he can be revealed only when his time comes. 7For this lawlessness is already at work secretly, and it will remain secret until the one who is holding it back steps out of the way. 8Then the man of lawlessness will be revealed, but the Lord Jesus will slay him with the breath of his mouth and destroy him by the splendor of his coming.
9This man will come to do the work of Satan with counterfeit power and signs and miracles. 10He will use every kind of evil deception to fool those on their way to destruction, because they refuse to love and accept the truth that would save them. 11So God will cause them to be greatly deceived, and they will believe these lies. 12Then they will be condemned for enjoying evil rather than believing the truth.
Believers Should Stand Firm
13As for us, we can't help but thank God for you, dear brothers and sisters loved by the Lord. We are always thankful that God chose you to be among the first to experience salvation - a salvation that came through the Spirit who makes you holy and through your belief in the truth. 14He called you to salvation when we told you the Good News; now you can share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
15With all these things in mind, dear brothers and sisters, stand firm and keep a strong grip on the teaching we passed on to you both in person and by letter.
16Now may our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who loved us and by his grace gave us eternal comfort and a wonderful hope, 17comfort you and strengthen you in every good thing you do and say. (NIV)
, or think that we haven't. What are we supposed to think with all these different inputs from "experts? Well, the only way to verify is to check the source of the only information we have on the issue - the Bible. Not just the KJV, NIV, or any other favorite version that tickles our ears - the whole Bible. The one that tells a story from Genesis through Revelation and all the information from one end to the other agrees with itself - without contradiction.
Some will lead you astray
Oh, you know that your pastor would never lead you astray? Well, one site at Patheos assures us that the tribulation was not only in the past, but the world is getting better. The site says this is because Jesus told us that once the tribulation happens, things will never be that bad again, based on Matthew 24:20-21
20But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath. 21For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now--and never to be equaled again.
. The site uses the Bible to back up his claims - sort of. His discussion points to the "fact" that in Matthew 24, Jesus was supposedly talking only to people who would be alive during the tribulation and the events would "come to pass in their lifetime, not ours", and then things would get better. Evidently, this person feels that this happened in 70 A.D., or even sometime in the Dark Ages, and things are just going to keep getting better for us.
Oh, his logic sounded good - until you actually read the passages in Matthew chapter 24. His argument was fine, if you stop after verse 21 and then skip to verse 34, but don't read any of the verses in between. However, there is a small set of passages in between that really make a difference:
29"Immediately after the distress of those days
" 'the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.' "
30"Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."
These words of Jesus are a summary restating quotes from the information in Isaiah, Ezekiel, and Joel. He is not stating this idea for the first time. God has been saying this all along.
Add it all together, and it makes sense
Now, work with me here. This is a little deep, and very theological, but you should be able to keep up without a brain hernia. If "immediately after the stress of those days" the sign of the Son of Man will appear in Heaven, and this happened in the distant past, there are some questions which beg to be asked. "Where is Jesus, and why is everyone still here?" "Where's my email saying that Jesus is here and in charge?" "How did the media, who see things that aren't even there, miss a real event?" If Revelation 1:7
7"Look, he is coming with the clouds," and "every eye will see him, even those who pierced him"; and all peoples on earth "will mourn because of him." So shall it be! Amen.
tells us that "every eye will see him", how did so many people in the world miss the most important event in the history of the world?
Of course, it depends on...
To be honest, this understanding is based on the definition of a couple of terms here. One is "immediately" as in "immediately after those days", which seems to imply a very short time. If you interpret "immediately" to mean "more than 200 years" (from 1798) or "more than 1900 years" (from 70 A.D.), then we just have to wait. Another term is "every" as in "every eye will see him". Now, this could mean "many" or "most" or "every non-Christian" or even "every Sunday-keeper" which is why some of us may have missed it. However, if nothing has been reported, and we haven't heard of any unusual droughts on entire countries, like America, that are not going to Jerusalem annually to worship the King of the earth (Zechariah 14:17
17If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD Almighty, they will have no rain.
), it seems that maybe He hasn't come yet.
Not only that, what about the rest of the Matthew 24 prophecy? The sun is still shining, the moon is visible on most nights except here in the moist Pacific northwest, and the stars still appear to be shining. Though we may not be theological professors, ministers, or any other Biblical authorities, a description of certain events should be noticeable. When we can look around to see that apparently nothing has changed, some parts of this idea should tend to generate questions in our minds.
And this is not just depending on my own knowledge here. Zechariah said in 14:16-19
16Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, and to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. 17If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, they will have no rain. 18If the Egyptian people do not go up and take part, they will have no rain. The Lord[a] will bring on them the plague he inflicts on the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. 19This will be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. (Zechariah 14:16-19)
that after the Lord comes, the survivors in the nations of the world would be required to go to Jerusalem year after year to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, and celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles. Did we miss the announcement that Jesus has returned and is in Jerusalem waiting for us to do something?
And there are others...
Well, it's not just this guy who says that the tribulation happened in the past. There are some others who say that all this bad stuff happened during what we call the Dark Ages. Without putting you through all the logic, here is a summary in their own words at Christianity Beliefs: Revelation Timeline Decoded:
So history unveils that these prophecies all point to the same 1,260 year time period of Great Tribulation, from 538-1798 A.D., during which the Popes of Rome were the reigning power in the world.
So it is not referring to 3 1/2 years of Great Tribulation during the end times.
Here again, we can use the same logic as we did above: If, based on the statements in Matthew 24:29-31
29"Immediately after the distress of those days
"'the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'
30"Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."
Jesus came at a Second Coming "immediately after those days", where is He and why haven't we heard something?
What about the Rapture?
Another "sign" of the end times we are told about is the so-called "Rapture" of the saints before the time of trouble begins. Supposedly, when we see this happen, we are to know that, if we missed it, then we are left behind and are at the beginning of Tribulation. Do you remember finding any reports of mass Christian disappearances in the past 200 or 1900 years? In a similar manner to that of skipping parts of the Bible that discredit a theory, some take passages that say one thing and add to their words a meaning that does not match anything else in the Bible. Again, easy to say, but let's see what is happening here.
"But, that's what the Bible says..."
The main passage used by many to support this new Rapture (from the 1800's) theory is 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17
13Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord's word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
.
Now, read this passage carefully and let everyone know when you find the place where it says that this will happen before Tribulation. Nothing? Next, see if you can find anything that references the "coming of the Lord". Ah, there it is in verse 15. O.K., so far? Now, find the verse that mentions Heaven as the destination of those taken. Oops, not there? One more look-up here. Find any passages in the Bible that say that Jesus will come again - and then yet again. You know, a sort of "second coming before the second coming". You will find that there are none of those either.
There is only one "second coming" mentioned - and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 describes it exactly. Otherwise, we have two "second comings" (or a second and a third). Remember, we need to read what the Bible says, not add to or distort it.
So, where does that leave us?
It's pretty easy to say these things about someone else's efforts to interpret prophecy, but where can we get the straight scoop? It's not like Zechariah gave us a date, or even Jesus in the book of Matthew. The one thing we can definitely know for sure is that the tribulation spoken of in Daniel, Isaiah, Matthew, and other books has not yet happened. But they did leave us clues, or "signs" of what must happen before the tribulation involving the Antichrist can begin.
Falling away
One of the signs is a great "falling away", apostasy, or loss of true faith in God and His Son. You can read this in 2 Thessalonians 2
Events prior to the Lord's Second Coming
1Now, dear brothers and sisters, let us clarify some things about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and how we will be gathered to meet him. 2Don't be so easily shaken or alarmed by those who say that the day of the Lord has already begun. Don't believe them, even if they claim to have had a spiritual vision, a revelation, or a letter supposedly from us. 3Don't be fooled by what they say. For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessness is revealed - the one who brings destruction. 4He will exalt himself and defy everything that people call god and every object of worship. He will even sit in the temple of God, claiming that he himself is God.
5Don't you remember that I told you about all this when I was with you? 6And you know what is holding him back, for he can be revealed only when his time comes. 7For this lawlessness is already at work secretly, and it will remain secret until the one who is holding it back steps out of the way. 8Then the man of lawlessness will be revealed, but the Lord Jesus will slay him with the breath of his mouth and destroy him by the splendor of his coming.
9This man will come to do the work of Satan with counterfeit power and signs and miracles. 10He will use every kind of evil deception to fool those on their way to destruction, because they refuse to love and accept the truth that would save them. 11So God will cause them to be greatly deceived, and they will believe these lies. 12Then they will be condemned for enjoying evil rather than believing the truth.
Believers Should Stand Firm
13As for us, we can't help but thank God for you, dear brothers and sisters loved by the Lord. We are always thankful that God chose you to be among the first to experience salvation - a salvation that came through the Spirit who makes you holy and through your belief in the truth. 14He called you to salvation when we told you the Good News; now you can share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
15With all these things in mind, dear brothers and sisters, stand firm and keep a strong grip on the teaching we passed on to you both in person and by letter.
16Now may our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who loved us and by his grace gave us eternal comfort and a wonderful hope, 17 comfort you and strengthen you in every good thing you do and say. (NIV)
. That "falling away" includes the loss of faith in the fact that Jesus will return someday for those who believe in His offer of Salvation, as well as a general loss of faith in the real Jesus in favor of a more gentle, loving, permissive Jesus. Don't think so? Well, if everyone thought about it enough to recognize it, the falling away probably wouldn't even happen. But, Jesus said it would, so look around, my friend. It's happening right before your eyes. Remember that just because one claims to be a believer, he is not one until he follows Jesus and "does the will of My Father who is in Heaven." (Matthew 7:21
21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."
). How many people that you know even keep all ten commandments of God, much less the other 603?
...and all the rest...
Other signs that we are to look for include wars, rumors of wars, violence, lawlessness, droughts, famines, earthquakes and other natural catastrophies, diseases, someone trying to take control of the world, and a buddy to help that someone (likely a religious power). Well, except for the last two, this list just enumerates what is happening every day in the world. So by this information, we should be looking up for signs of Jesus' coming. However, the last two don't seem to be in the "news" today.
In fact, according to Ezekiel in chapters 40 - 48, there is yet to be a temple built in which the Antichrist will perform "the abomination that causes desolation" spoken of in Daniel 9:27
27 "He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."
. And, he can't do that until the Jews begin their sacrifices again in the new temple. So, by normal reckoning based on what the Bible says, we should be seeing a temple being built sometime before Christ comes, hopefully in the near future.
But, based on whose calendar?
However, even there we have to be careful. By our method of timekeeping, at the time of this writing the current year is 2017. By a common "1000 years to a day" reckoning, we have started the period that some say is to begin the 7th 1000 year period that is supposed to be the Millennium. This makes some sense and is suggested by some vague texts in the Bible, but let's wait and see before shooting off half-cocked.
Since by all appearances Christ has not yet returned, and that Millennium hasn't happened yet, someone's idea is wrong somewhere. However, the Jewish calendar sets the year at the time of this writing at 5777, so there are still 223 years to go before the end of the 6000 years. If that's what God has in mind, then they still have 216 years to build the temple before the Antichrist comes. Like they say, we can't be dogmatic, just stay awake.
But watch out, they are out there trying to hook you
After all this, we just have some general signs to keep in mind as we watch the events of the world unfold. To be dogmatic is foolish, as you can see by the number of "predictions" of the recent past. To get an idea of this, the site at Bible.ca lists 242 predictions with one setting the coming of the antichrist as late as September 14, 2047, and with several that just say "soon!" The way things look, if even Jesus wouldn't guess, these other guesses seem a bit foolish.
When the Antichrist gets here
When he finally gets here, according to Bible prophecy, the Antichrist will have access to the saints. We will still be here because we don't get "caught up" until the second coming, and that second coming is the event that destroys the Antichrist as we are promised in 2 Thessalonians 2:8
8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.
. For those of you who disagree because you think we "must" be raptured to keep us from God's Wrath, remember Noah's family and also the Israelites in Egypt. There were no raptures going on there, but the right people were protected from God's Wrath in both cases - by His promises, not our wishes.
Tribulation will come, the saints will be persecuted by the Antichrist, they will not suffer God's Wrath
For those who still say that the saints won't be here because they are raptured and will return from Heaven with Christ when He comes again, read Matthew 16:27
27For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.
and Mark 8:38
38If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his Father's glory with the holy angels.
. The angels (also called "holy ones") will return with Him (angeloi or angelon in the Greek), not the saints. The saints will have either died or will be standing firm, enduring the persecution (Revelation 14:12
12This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus.
) of the Tribulation.
That's how they will have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of Christ (Revelation 7:14
14I answered, "Sir, you know." And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
). To be coming down with Jesus means that they have just been resurrected or are still alive and caught up by Jesus at His return. You can't come out of something if you are not in it (car, room, trouble), and you cannot win a battle if you do not fight in it. See my page The Rapture for some Biblical references to support this "outrageous" claim.
Whether we recognize the Antichrist, or get taken in by him, depends on our familiarity with the signs that only God's word can give us. Only knowing what the Bible really says will make sure that we take the proper steps and believe only the truth.
Study a lot and hang in there, brothers and sisters, but be sure you are on the narrow path.
Disagree? Find an error? Contact us at glenjjr@gmail.com and give us your view.
