BLUE VIEWPOINT
Does it matter?
This is not one of those issues where one's salvation hangs in the balance. However, what you believe on one issue can be a foundation for the basis of a decision on an issue that does matter. It seems wise to grow up and find out what the Bible actually says on the concept rather than be at the mercy of "prevailing winds" of deceitful teachings (Ephesians 4:14
14Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming.
).
First, your Bible probably does not translate the Greek correctly
No, I'm not talking about the tenses of the conjugated extrapolation of the primitive verbilation of the here-to-fore contra-verse lower tense narrativation, whatever that means. I mean there are words in your Bible that do not appear in the original manuscript, or even the copies of them that historians have found. Take Luke 17:34-36. What does your Bible say? In a search for "Luke 17:34-36 Interlinear", I went to three of the sites listed in the search result, and found three different results.
First, Studylight.org shows verses 34 and 35 in the English from the New American Standard version and the Greek of the original text from which it was translated, but verse 36 shows only the English with no Greek from which to translate - that verse was not in the original, but wound up in many popular Bible versions. Also, there are brackets around the English to indicate that this was added:
For you naysayers, another site at Bible Study Tools shows the same result for the text of the King James Version:
But, notice that they do not even bother to show the brackets around verse 36 to indicate that this verse was not in the original.
Finally, using my favorite interlinear site at Bible Hub, they also fail to leave this verse out of the Luke text, but make it worse by adding the Greek to make it appear that the text is valid. Notice the {} brackets around the Greek on verse 36 indicating that this text has been added:
While this is not monumental, it is a good example of manipulaion that leads people astray. In this case, Jesus did say these words in another gospel, but there are other places where words were added that did not come from anywhere in the originals.
Other little details
The NIV study notes are honest enough to say this:
17:36 See NIV text note on v. 35. A copyist probably inserted v. 36 here from Mt. 24:40.
So, while we cannot say that this particular text is a complete fabrication, since it was recorded in Matthew as the words of Jesus, you may not be getting the whole truth from your Bible. If they can add text here, they can add it anywhere, and not always in an honest manner.
Not just in these places...
There are many places were text has been modified from the original, adding an idea not originally intended. A big one is many versions that incorrectly render Mark 7:19
19"For it doesn't go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)
, where Jesus was discussing "the washing of hands before eating" with some Pharisees. Following the quote from Jesus, there is an added parenthetical comment that is not in the original text. The presence of that statement implies the necessity of determining what Jesus meant, but directing the attention of the reader to the word "food", suggesting everything that "liberal-minded Christian people" eat. This is a not-so-subtle slam on the strictness of the "Jewish" diet, specified by God. Here is the Greek:
I included verse 20 to show that there was no added parenthetical statement at the end of verse 19. Jesus used the word "food", and they did not consider unclean things to be food. They were not discussing the eating of things that God calls unclean and detestable. But, most pastors interpret this parenthetical statement, added by a "copyist", to be "gospel", and change God's clear definition of food to include junk. They preach it as though Jesus was saying that it's OK to eat bacon, lobster, clams, and other junk that God declares is not food. Jesus made His comments about the process of eating with unwashed hands, not some sneaky approval of a diet not approved by His Father.
"Who will be taken and who will be left?"
As another example of confusion caused by added text, in most Bibles, verses 34 and 35 in Luke 17 indicate the gender of the ones under discussion - men or women are mentioned, but this is not true to the Greek. The Greek word for the number present in the text, "duo" meaning "two", does not indicate gender in either verse, just the number involved in the event. Even the Interlinear version at Bible Hub above shows the Greek without gender, properly showing "two upon one bed", but still adds the word "[women]" in brackets to the English for the "two grinding", though it was not there to translate.
However, because the added words appear in many versions, some have used the mention of two men in one bed as an indication that some homosexuals will be saved, because one of the "men" in bed with each other is taken, while the other is left behind, at the second coming. This concept is contrary to the clear statements of the Bible with regard to homosexuality.
The links to these sites have been given for you to check out what I am saying. Be like the Bereans and check the facts and make sure they match what the Bible says. If you disagree with my comments, let me know and I will print your objections on the other side of this page.
"Where, Lord?"
We are also not told in these "taken" verses the nature of those who will be taken or to where they will be taken. The apostles asked, "Where?", not clarifying "who", and the answer they received was not clear for us today. There are a lot of explanations you can find online as to the meaning of Luke 17:37:
37"Where, Lord?" they asked. He replied, "Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather." (Luke 17:37)
and some of them make a kind of sense, if you ignore parts of Scripture in the explanation. A recent discovery shows that there are at least two major views regarding who is taken and who is left behind. This is not about the timing of the "taking up", but about who is taken and why.
Now, what does this mean?
Everyone has an idea of who they think will be taken in those boxed passages above, and some of us even have a reason why we think that. Based on some passages like Matthew 24:38-39, some say that those who will be taken at the second coming will be the sinners headed for destruction. Their logic is that the ones left are those who will inherit the earth. Another view says that the ones not taken are left behind to enter the kingdom, evidently leaving the earth barren and lifeless. Based on the context of the events in Noah's day, and in a way, those in the days of Lot, we can see that the only ones who "went" anywhere were the "bad guys", while the "good guys" stayed where they were, kind of. These views make sense only if you ignore other Bible verses on the subject. More on that in a bit.
Others, like myself, read these Matthew 24:38-41
38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
and Luke 17:34-35
34"I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left."
passages in context with other passages regarding the same event - the second coming of the Son of Man. Passages like 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17
13Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord's word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
, John 14:3
3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.
, Colossians 3:4
4When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.
, Matthew 24:31
31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
, and 2 Thessalonians 2:1
1Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,
make clear statements about who is taken at the second coming and where they will be after Jesus comes and forever after that. They will be gathered to Jesus and will be wherever He is.
Then, according to the Bible, where will He be?
When Jesus returns, the first thing that happens is a huge battle, ended with the sword of His mouth (Revelation 19:15
15Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. "He will rule them with an iron scepter." He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty.
), after which He will rule the earth with an iron scepter. There will be survivors of this huge battle (Zechariah 14:16-17
16Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, and to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. 17If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, they will have no rain.
), from all nations, who will be required to go to Jerusalem and perform a Jewish festival. Actually, this festival is, and always has been, a Festival of God - not just of the Jews. All those naysayers who refuse to do anything "given to the Israelites" will be getting pretty thirsty of they keep up with that attitude.
If Jesus is reigning on the earth, where are we?
Well, according to Revelation 20:4-6
4I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 4(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
, those in Christ, both dead and living, were gathered to Him at His coming, He reigns on earth, and His elect gathered from the four winds (Matthew 24:31
31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
) will reign with Him for a thousand years. We will be with Him on earth (1 Thessalonians 4:13-17
13Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord's word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
).
The left behind will be the "nations"
This fits with the passage in Zechariah 14 speaking of the survivors of the great battle of Revelation 19. Those not taken will be left behind as mortals to worship the King of the earth according to His way and commands, not each doing it his own way as he sees fit (Deuteronomy 12:8
8You are not to do as we do here today, everyone doing as they see fit,
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Conclusion
Sites like Jason A. Staples and Blue Letter Bible present arguments based on an idea linked to the events, like the flood in Noah's day, mentioned by Jesus in His comments. Their explanations make sense as long as you ignore other comments by Him, and clear statements made by Paul in his letters to the Thessalonians and the Colossians. Yes, you can use the idea of the situations of Noah and Lot to draw a conclusion, but the conclusion must fit the whole concept.
We could just as easily say that Noah was "lifted up" in the Ark and saved while the rest of the world was destroyed. That is not the description of the described second coming. We could say that Lot was "led up to safety" while the rest of Sodom and Gomorrah were sent down to their graves. That is not a description of the second coming. The second coming is a description of the gathering of those with true faith to rule with Jesus, leaving the rest of mankind on the earth to learn to live out the rest of their lives in worship of the Lord in a proper manner and under His rule. That is not a "taking away" of non-believers to destruction as described by these contrary sites.
For the sake of presenting an alternative argument, Jesus' statement could refer to the "suddenness" of the rain and the ensuing flood. The people of that time had never seen rain, so they immediately realized that something big was going on. And, there was nothing they could do about it. When the fountains of the deep broke open, they really did experience sudden "climate change". After Noah left in the Ark, they were truly "left behind" and "swept away". The similarity to the times of Noah would be comparison to this suddenness and surprise (1 Thessalonians 5:1-3
1Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.
).This way, it still fits with the words of Jesus and Paul, and matches the rest of the Biblical story. Just sayin'.
Yep, I still hope to be taken at His coming.
Disagree? Find an error? Contact us at glenjjr@gmail.com and give us your view.
