VIEWPOINT
Credit where credit is due
Amir Tsafarti
Amir Tsafarti is founder and president of Behold Israel, started in 2001 and formalized as a non-profit 501c3 in 2014. His bio on the site says:
Amir Tsafarti was born in Israel and has lived there most of his life. Since fulfilling his mandatory service in the Israeli Defense Force, he has continued as a major in the IDF Reserve. Amir has been a tour guide in Israel for the last twenty years, and served as chief tour guide of Sar El Tours and CEO of Sar El Tours and Conferences. In 2001, he became founder and president of Behold Israel, which formalized as a non-profit 501c3 in 2014. Behold Israel provides worldwide real-time access to reliable sources of news and information about Israel from within the powerful context of Bible history and prophecy.
Amir is married to Miriam, and together they have four children. His home overlooks the valley of Megiddo (Armageddon) which is a constant reminder of the call that the Lord has placed on him to teach from the Bible what God's plans are for the end of times.
Jack Hibbs
While Jack Hibbs appears to be a well-liked pastor of a large church in California, a quick search through his website and Google revealed nothing about who he is and how he came to be where he is now. This is not necessarily bad, but it does not inform us about his background or any qualifications to be a pastor. That can actually a good thing, as there are no legal qualifications to become a pastor. However, it does raise the question as to whether he teaches a Bible-based gospel or a prosperity-based worldly gospel.
His church keeps Christmas and Easter, both pagan "holidays". Since his church meets on Sunday and one of the few statements he makes about the Sabbath says that the Sabbath fell with Adam and Eve, I guess God forgot to pass that on to Israel in the desert after they left Egypt. This means that his congregation does not follow all of the ten commandments.
Their teachings on the Rapture
This is a commentary on the "facts" he presents in this pdf that was given to me by the staff that answers the email sent to their organization. It is not intended as a judgment of the author, merely a questioning of the veracity of his teachings, as well as the beliefs of anyone who believes in the pre-Tribulation rapture. Based on this preliminary research into his beliefs and practices, we show how this affects his view of the Rapture. As most pastors know, the dispute is not about whether a rapture event will happen. It is about when it will happen - before, during, or after the tribulation. Looking at the pdf, starting at the top, how do the passages he uses compare to his explanations?
"Must?", "Rediscovering?"
The presumptive title of the pdf is Why There Must Be A Pre-tribulation Rapture Of The Church. The intent of the pdf is clear, to prove a belief of the author. One problem rears it's head almost immediately. Look at the subtitle - REDISCOVERING THE BIBLICAL PROMISE OF THE BLESSED HOPE.
This subtitle is a little vague, but the first impression is that the pre-tribulation Rapture, herein referred to as the PreRapture to distinguish it from the rapture/taking at Jesus' Second Coming, is supposedly an old fact that we are just now "rediscovering" after the original teachings about it have been lost or hidden. As we show on The Rapture page of this site, this "lost" concept is from the 1820's, not the first century. By his statement, this "lost" concept is tied to the phrase "blessed hope" so that anything that follows or refers to this "blessed hope" must be referring to the PreRapture. That, of course, requires the reader to either accept this assumption as fact or investigate to see whether it is true. How many of you have immediately launched your own investigation into this?
It doesn't take too much research. According to the Bible, what is the "blessed hope"? It is mentioned in Paul's letter to Titus in 2:13
while we wait for the blessed hope - the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,
. So, the "blessed hope" is the "appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ". That would be at His Second Coming. Just where does this verse tie to some mystical event seven years before His second coming? It isn't there, so you have to add the idea to the verse by defining your own connection to the imaginary PreRapture. And, the Second Coming is not something that Christianity has to "rediscover". It has been evident in faith and taught by most denominations since the first century.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
We have covered this passage in other pages on this site. First, for this to work for him, we have to assume that Mr. Hibbs is correct in tying this passage to the PreRapture. However, read through the passage and point out the part that says that the event described here is not the Second Coming of the Lord in the clouds. According to Matthew 24:30-31
30Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
, Matthew 26:64
64You have said so," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.
, Mark 13:26
26At that time people will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory.
, and Luke 21:27
27At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
, no matter which one you are familiar with, they all say the same thing and are speaking of the Second Coming. That Second Coming only happens once - after the Tribulation.
The biggest argument presented for this passage is that it says, "Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air." while the other passages do not mention "in the air". That surprises me because I have always had the impression that clouds are "in the air", and they are mentioned in all the verses in the preceding paragraph.
The context for anyone who is paying attention depends on what Paul is describing in these verses. He is not providing a complete description of the events of Christ's return, so there are some details he leaves out as they are not pertinent to his answer. The question he is answering is whether or not those who have died (1 Thessalonians 14:13
13Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope.
) since the death of Christ will be able to be gathered to Him when He returns. The Thessalonians thought that only those living at that time would be caught up. Paul is assuring them in these verses that the living will not go up before the dead in Christ, but will be included first.
Read it in context and you will get that. If you already have the PreRapture in mind, you have to insert that thought to the text in order to make it fit, and even then it does not work with the context. They were not asking, "How do we get out of the Tribulation?", but "What about those who have died?"
"The Issue Of Debate"
As is stated right on the pdf, the debate is about when the rapture will happen. Jesus describes it as happening at the coming of the Son of Man (Matthew 24:39-4139and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.
40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
), which happens only once. There is no mention of another "taking", especially one that does this same thing seven years earlier. That would eliminate the need for the one at His coming.
Also, the text immediately following these verses describes why we should be alert and be ready (Matthew 24:42-44
42Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.
). Contrary to the premise of this PreRapture, you don't get two chances at this taking. That fallacy is part of the reasoning behind the concept of the PreRapture. Some say that if you are left behind in the PreRapture, you get another chance to do it right and be part of the "next one" when Jesus returns again. This concept gives them a reason for the second "first" resurrection (Revelation 20:5
5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
) when Jesus actually comes. That would be two "first" resurrections.
"Why not...?"
At this rate, we will soon be hearing of another "special" rapture (PrePreRapture), that happens six months before the PreRapture, where only the "smart" church pastors are taken so that they can to go to Heaven and get ready for the "influx" of all the "saved" people in their church. Maybe they will call them the "shepherd saints". There is just as much evidence for that as there is for the PreRapture.
One of their arguments is that there is a difference between what they call the "church age" saints and the "tribulation" saints. The church age saints are described as those who came to believe between the time of the Pentecost that occurred after the Ascension of Christ and the time of the PreRapture that they claim comes 7 years before the second coming of Christ. The tribulation saints are those "left behind" in the PreRapture that will receive a different destiny than the "church age saints". Neither Old Testament saints or tribulation saints are included in the "church age". You can see an example of this belief at Grace thru Faith. Notice that the Bible references given on that site only work for them if you accept their definitions of saints. Without that acceptance, saints are saints and their discussion falls apart.
You notice that the pdf we are examining has no Bible verses listed to provide evidence of this supposed difference between the saints, just the bald-faced statement that there is a difference.
The same logic applies to the second statement here about the "must" that is "required" to fulfill a purpose for the tribulation. Evidently, Hibbs feels that the tribulation cannot take place unless the PreRapture happens. With no Biblical references, we have only the author's word that, "This is the fundamental key to The Last Days events - The 7 year tribulation period is 100% devoted to the fulfillment of great portions of the Old testament and New testament teachings of the Last Days". The statements that follow, again without a single Bible reference, are supposed to convince us.
"The Biblical Revelation of the Rapture Event"
Again, this is a reference to the same 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
13Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord's word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words.
passage we have discussed above. If you accept Hibbs' re-defined context, then you will believe him. If you read what the passage says at take its stated meaning, in the context of Paul's reason for giving the passage instead of a "re-defined" one, you will not be convinced by his argument.
As for the "doctrine revealed by Jesus Himself", notice that there are no Biblical verses referenced by Hibbs as evidence for this claim. The only Rapture Jesus mentions is the one at His Second Coming in the clouds at the last trumpet (Matthew 24:29-31
29"Immediately after the distress[a] of those days
" 'the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken'
30"Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
[a]Some Bible versions, such as the KJV, use the word tribulation instead of distress
, Revelation 11:15-19
15The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:
"The kingdom of the world has become
the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,
and he will reign for ever and ever."
16And the twenty-four elders, who were seated on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17saying:
"We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty,
the One who is and who was,
because you have taken your great power
and have begun to reign.
18The nations were angry,
and your wrath has come.
The time has come for judging the dead,
and for rewarding your servants the prophets
and your people who revere your name,
both great and small -
and for destroying those who destroy the earth."
19Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant. And there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake and a severe hailstorm.
).
Redefining "THE SECOND COMING OF JESUS CHRIST"
The first statement here is to set us up for his view of the PreRapture. If we do not understand that we are talking about "A Two Aspect, Two Phase Event", then we cannot follow his reasoning. But, when did that idea start? If you read The Rapture page, the historical origin of this concept is from the late 1820's, not the first century.
Hibbs here splits the second coming into the "appearing" and the "return", supposedly two different events, and then pushes that idea by saying that the Bible describes both of these events with a single term as His "coming". That's pretty convenient, and confusing. If someone appears at my doorstep after having left earlier, I would say that he has returned. According to Hibbs' logic, this person has appeared, but has not returned. For those of us that disagree with him, we are supposedly confused when we see this single Bible reference to the Second Coming as he explains that it is supposedly meant to be understood as two different events.
The only "evidence" he has for this is to create a definition to separate the Atmospheric (in the heavens or sky), and the physical Return where Jesus fights the battle before returning to Jerusalem. His argument tries to convince us, again, without Biblical references or even examples.
Repetition for effect - "1.) The Rapture: It is a Biblical doctrine"
Though his comment does not give any Bible reference here, his statement confuses the issue even more when he says that "the Bible has always taught that Jesus Christ could return in the atmosphere to take possession of His church -at anytime". I thought he said that the Atmospheric "appearance" was not the "Return", but only the PreRapture. Here I guess he means that Jesus will both appear and return, but only "rapture" the church on this return. I'd rather go with what Jesus said in Matthew 24:39-4139and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left., leaving the word "coming" to mean when the Son of Man appears in the clouds to establish the Kingdom, resurrect the dead in Christ, take those living that He chooses, all to reign with Him in the Millennium. In logic, they call this "one fell swoop", as in all done efficiently at one time.
"1a.) A foundational doctrine in the New Tastament? - Titus 2:13"
Ah, finally some Bible references. But, he is using the definitions he established earlier to convince us that the Titus 2:13 verse means "PreRapture", even if you have to insert the meaning to make it work. If you read Titus 2:13
while we wait for the blessed hope - the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,
in the context of Jesus' words in Matthew 24:39-4139and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left., it makes more sense than Hibbs' interpretation. Actually, it really makes the Rapture at the second coming the "foundational doctrine" to which Hibbs referred.
"1 Thessalonians 1:10a"
Once again, we have a verse that requires us to have a certain concept of what the written words mean. If we listen to Hibbs' arguments before he presents the evidence, we will think that the only way for Jesus to deliver us from the wrath to come is the establishment of the PreRapture as the "must", the only way He can deliver us. Well, are there any other situations where those "delivered" from the wrath of God were saved without a PreRapture? Noah, Lot, and the Israelites in Egypt were all warned in advance about God's wrath passing through. However, in none of those cases did God use a PreRapture to deliver them from the wrath. Only true faith and obedience to the commands of God will allow you to be included when Jesus returns for His ecclesia (Matthew 7:21
21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."
).
So, why is it that we now "must" believe that this PreRapture is the only way for His word to be fulfilled? I think it is as simple as people wanting what they feel is the best way for God to protect us to be what everyone believes, despite any evidence to the contrary. They take God's promises to deliver us as an assurance that our lives will be warm, fuzzy, and comfortable "up in Heaven", while the "rest of the world" suffers greatly down below. But, what about the verses in Matthew and Revelation that pertain to this time on the earth?
Matthew 24:9
9"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me."
must seem vague to those readers who cannot fathom the deep symbolism that Jesus used when He said those words. By the way, these words apply to those saints who are supposedly to be PreRaptured before the Tribulation. Either the Antichrist will have to find a way to execute Heavenly Residents in order to do that, or the PreRapture will not happen, which is according to what the Bible actually says.
Revelation 7:1-9
1After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. 2Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: 3Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God. 4Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
5From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,
from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,
from the tribe of Gad 12,000,
6from the tribe of Asher 12,000,
from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,
from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,
7 from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,
from the tribe of Levi 12,000,
from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,
8from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,
the tribe of Joseph 12,000,
from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.
The Great Multitude in White Robes
9After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.
speaks of impending doom and identifies those who were sealed to protect them from the wrath of God - the remnant of believing Israel and those from every nation who believe. The result of this sealing is mentioned in Revelation 9:4
4They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads.
. These verses cause another variation in the definitions of those who require the PreRapture to happen. The definition of the "difference" between "church age" saints and the "tribulation saints". Without that "difference" their PreRapture concept falters.
How do we know that there is a difference between them? Although the Bible never distinguishes between them, those who hold to the PreRapture idea say that those saints who are raptured are taken to Heaven, and those "smart ones" who figure out what they have been missed supposedly become those tribulation saints. In that way, the Antichrist can persecute some saints like the Bible says he will.
The trouble with this view is that, according to Revelation 22:11
10Then he told me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is near. 11Let the one who does wrong continue to do wrong; let the vile person continue to be vile; let the one who does right continue to do right; and let the holy person continue to be holy."
, there will come a time when it is too late to change. If that's the case, those left behind can no longer change to become "tribulation saints". The study notes for this verse in my NIV say:
22:11 "The time is near" (v. 10), so it is too late to change. The unrepentant must now face the consequences of their actions (see v. 12).
After all the warnings in the Bible that have been available to all for thousands of years, there will come a time when the decision is made and the judgment will be locked in. That is when Jesus will come, raise the dead in Christ, take the living in Christ, and leave the rest behind. This is mentioned in the pdf as "Harpazo", but happens at the coming of Christ, not before. Once that is done, there is no reason for "another" first resurrection, only the resurrection to judgment is left. That is when the hearts of those left on earth will be judged.
"1b.) Why does the Rapture need to happen? 'What's the why for?' "
In order to have this question make more sense, the questions are put in a more natural order. However, this does not change the response to the presentation.
Point #1 presents two Bible verses in an attempt to explain "why" the PreRapture must take place. Neither of the verses accomplish this without some presumptions added by means of emphasized text and parenthetical statements.
First, in John 14:1-3, Jesus make some statements about the Father's house and His intentions at His second coming. True statements. The implication is in the premise stated in Point #1 in Large, Bold Type - "Jesus Welcomes The Church Into Heaven."! Now, this is going to be a little difficult, but you should be able to handle it. Search the text of the verses in the Bible for the word "Heaven". Find it? Nope? OK, now tell me where Jesus will be when He comes to earth and gathers all the saints to Him on His way to Jerusalem to set up the Millennial Kingdom. Figure it out yet? Yep. On earth. The mansion is still up in Heaven with the Father, and it has been prepared for us, just as He said. We are with Him wherever He is, which during the Millennium is on the earth. After the Millennium is the great White Throne judgment, new creation, and the coming of the New Jerusalem mansions down to earth. Even God Himself will come down to join us. Never is any human seen in Heaven.
In order to reinforce his view, Hibbs now "quotes" Revelation 4:1, but with parenthetical statements added to insert meanings not evident in the text. One of the inserted statements says that "(from this point on, the church is never again seen on earth, only in heaven)". But there are no church members mentioned at all in the descriptions of Heaven, only souls under the altar who were killed for their beliefs. In fact, the rest of chapter 4, then chapter 5 and half of 6 pass with no mention of any humans until the reference in Revelation 6:9
9When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained.
to the souls under the altar.
Notice that these souls are not roaming the halls of Heaven, as you would expect if they had "gone to Heaven" or were "taken to Heaven" in the PreRapture, but are in waiting under the altar for the number of the rest of those "fellow servants" to be killed (Revelation 6:11
11Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been.
). Now, the only way to be killed is to be a living human on the earth. If the timing of this verse follows the statement in verse 4:1 above, how does the parenthetical statement work? If anyone who is a servant of God is killed after the PreRapture, doesn't that create a conflict with the concept of the servants now residing in Heaven after the PreRapture? That means either the Antichrist found a way to kill saints in Heaven, or these souls were told a lie by the Sovereign Lord of whom they asked the question, or the PreRapture won't happen. Somehow, only one of these possibilities seems reasonable.
Point #2 makes another bold statement about the Holy Spirit finishing His work through the church, followed by verses in Jude 1:24-25
24To him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy - 25to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.
. This verse is a prayer to God our Savior, not a statement confirming a Rapture or a statement of the Holy Spirit finishing His work through the church. Those thoughts must be added. To top it off, Hibbs makes a direct summary statement saying the same thing he just finished saying. This is evidently self-confirming just because he said it twice.
"There Will be a Domino Effect #3 - Only Then Will the Anti-Christ Be Revealed."
After a short discussion about how long after the PreRapture the "Anti-Christ Regime" will appear, we are told that the PreRapture will be the event that starts the final countdown. The problem with that idea is that the same chapter of 2 Thessalonians 2 (verses 6-8
6And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.
) he uses to demonstrate that countdown also says it cannot happen until after man of lawlessness (the Antichrist) is revealed (2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
1Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us - whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter - asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.
). Remember that these letters from Paul to the Thessalonians were to reassure them that the Lord had not yet returned and left again, leaving them behind. He is telling them that certain things must happen before that return occurs. Now, if some people claim that PreRapture occurs before the tribulation, therefore before the lawless one has been revealed, either Paul is lying to us or someone else is twisting Scripture out of shape.
"1c.) What purpose does the Rapture serve?"
First, if there is no PreRapture, then that idea serves no purpose but misdirection. The danger is that when people see the lawless one revealed, they may think that they have been missed by the event that never happened and may lose their faith right before the time that they need it the most - the real coming of the Lord. That is where the perseverance is need most. Seek the truth and stick with it. Do not be deluded and distracted (2 Thessalonians 2:10-11
10and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
).
Hibbs' reasoning from Revelation 3:10 implies that "keep[ing] you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth." can only be accomplished by the PreRapture. As we have shown earlier, God can accomplish this protection without some imaginary, made-up event. This was demonstrated with Noah, Lot, and the Israelites in Egypt. We must remember to keep the faith and stay in the will of the Father at all times. If we do that, we will be ready when He comes.
Astoundingly, Hibbs uses a verse from 1 Thessalonians (2:19) that speaks of our gathering in the presence of the Lord "at His coming" to somehow imply that we will have done so before His coming. The difference in thoughts here is that his implication is that we will be coming from Heaven with Jesus instead of being gathered to Him (2 Thessalonians 2:1
1Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,
) at His coming. One of those ideas is incorrect.
Following these statements, Hibbs has listed a series of passages, most of which we have already covered in this discussion. Repetition of incorrect iterpretations does not make him right or change the meaning of the passages. One of the passages he references, we have not yet covered. He quotes 1 Thessalonians 3:13 as saying "AT THE COMING of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints." This is somewhat confusing because the word used in this passage is normally translated as "holy ones", not "saints" as is shown in the ESV. If you look at the NIV, 1 Thessalonians 3:13
13May he strengthen your hearts so that you will be blameless and holy in the presence of our God and Father when our Lord Jesus comes with all his holy ones.
the word hagion is interpreted as "holy ones", but the Interlinear actually uses the word "saints". However, this verse refers to the same event as Matthew 25:31
31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne."
and Mark 8:38
38"If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his Father's glory with the holy angels."
, both of which render those who accompany Jesus as "holy angels" in both the NIV and the Greek Interlinear, using the words angelon ton hagion to describe the "holy angels". This is curious, so I looked around for some commentary on this. This is addressed in a Lesson at an Adventist site called Adult Bible Study Guide on page 70:
Somewhat puzzling is Paul's comment in verse 13 that Jesus will come "with all his saints." The words saints and holy ones are normally applied to human beings in the New Testament. On the other hand, Second Coming texts in the New Testament normally describe Jesus as accompanied by angels rather than human beings (Matt. 24:30, 31; Mark 8:38; 13:27). So, who are the "saints" in this verse?
The solution to this problem is to recognize that in verse 13 Paul adopted the language of Zechariah 14:5 and applied it to the second coming of Jesus. The "holy ones" in the Old Testament are best understood as angels (see also Deut. 33:2 and Dan. 7:10). The New Testament, on the other hand, gives the word saints new meaning: they are human beings whose righteousness is from Jesus. In 1 Thessalonians 3:13, however, Paul reverts to the Old Testament definition of the word saints as angelic beings who stand in the presence of God. As such, they will accompany the God-man Jesus when He returns to earth.
Of course, commentary is not the final answer for everything. I disagree that "saints" are always "best understood" to mean people by the phrase "holy ones". The best evidence is in the number of various Bible texts on the same subjects, but the rest of the explanation is reasonable. There is a point where we must decide on an issue for ourselves. When there is only one verse that interprets a word differently than when it is used in other descriptions of a single event, we must decide whether to accept the isolated one that differs or all the others that agree with each other. The explanation from the site at ABSG above sounds reasonable when added to all the other Biblical verses about the same event. There is not enough evidence to even suggest that those who return with Christ are people "saints".
In a perfect example of preaching from tradition rather that the word of God, Hibbs now brings up Enoch as an example of PreRapture. However, if you read the passage in Genesis 5:21-24
21When Enoch had lived 65 years, he became the father of Methuselah. 22After he became the father of Methuselah, Enoch walked faithfully with God 300 years and had other sons and daughters. 23Altogether, Enoch lived a total of 365 years. 24Enoch walked faithfully with God; then he was no more, because God took him away.
, there is nothing about "where" he was taken. In fact, when Paul mentions him in Hebrews 11:5
5By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: "He could not be found, because God had taken him away." For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.
, he says that Enoch did not experience death. At the risk of being petty, he did not say that he did not die. In fact, in Hebrews 11:13
13All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth.
, he did say that he died along with the others listed. I prefer to think that God made sure that his death was painless and quick, or something similar, so that he was no more.
Christians often speak of the death of people saying, "She has gone to be with God.", or, "He is no longer with us.", but they never mean that they were "raptured", but only that they have died. This was a man who walked with God before he died (he lived this life for 365 years, not forever), then was no longer with us. Whatever the true events in the end of Enoch, this is not an indication of a PreRapture.
"Luke 21:36"
The reference by Hibbs to this passage is another example of misdirection. His mention is to imply that this passage is referring to the PreRapture, when the subject matter is actually explained in the verses immediately preceding this one. The verses in Luke 21:34-35
34Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you suddenly like a trap. 35For it will come on all those who live on the face of the whole earth.
tell us why we need to be careful and what we need to avoid so that we can remain ready when we stand before the Lord on that day. This is not a prediction of a PreRapture by Luke.
"2.) What will be the characteristics of the Rapture?"
Hibbs directs our attention to an unknown list of "redemption doctrines", of which this is evidently the last one on the list. Somehow, this is the one that is so necessary to the "completion of God's salvation" that it is never described in any identifiable manner in the Bible we read. It is only apparent when explained to the simple-minded masses by one of the shepherds who can't even get the Ten Commandments right. In order to support his claim, he refers to Colossians 3:4
4When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.
, which speaks of the resurrection and gathering of the saints to him at His second coming in the same way the as 2 Thessalonians 2:1
1Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,
when we are gathered at His coming.
"2a. How will the Rapture happen?"
At the coming of Christ, the real Rapture will happen just as these verses say it will, just seven years later than Hibbs claims. Again, the only question here is when it will happen.
"2b. What will happen to those left behind?"
Duh. They will have to go through the period of tribulation. What else? What will surprise these PreRapture advocates is that everyone, including the saints, will be experiencing the tribulation of the Antichrist. They will not, however, experience the wrath of God that comes about when the Antichrist begins to pick on the saints. The saints "must" be persecuted (Matthew 24:9
9"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me."
, Daniel 7:25
25He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.
) unless Scripture is lying. That would be for the second half of the seven years of the treaty week, since the first half was peaceful and the sacrifices continued.
The paragraph of explanation says that the first half of the 7-year tribulation is a period of the wrath of God, after which there is evidently a period of Great Tribulation. First off, where are we told that the tribulation period will last 7 years? Unless you come to the verses with that understanding already set into your brain, you can't get there. The active discussions mention the 70th week of Daniel, which would be seven years long. However, what does the word say about that time? We are told in Daniel 9:27
27"He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven'. In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."
that the Antichrist will make a treaty with many for seven years. He does not break that treaty until the second half of the period. Now there are only three-and-one-half years left in the seven years. That is when the Antichrist breaks the treaty and starts doing some despicable things. When he does that, God gets angry and His wrath is released, during the sounding of the trumpets, on those without the seal of God (Revelation 9:3-4
3And out of the smoke locusts came down on the earth and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth. 4They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads.
).
Just looking at what the verses actually say about the tribulation period, there would be no reason for a PreRapture until at most 3 1/2 years before the second coming. But, we are never told that even that will happen. If the Antichrist is only persecuting those in the Middle East, maybe Jesus will only rapture them since the rest of the world is safe for a while. Then He can rapture them out in stages just ahead of any tribulation that would occur abroad. And since even Jesus did not know when He would return, how would He know the best time to perform the PreRapture?
I know, this sounds like a silly question, but when you are discussing a silly topic, what do you expect? I can make up stuff as well as anyone. No sane person would want to be around for this period, but the Bible does not say that anyone will given an excused abscence. People will be fearing or suffering from either the blows of the Antichrist or the wrath of God. But, remember, the believers will be around for the Antichrist to persecute, but they will be kept from the wrath of God.
The reference to 2 Thessalonians 2:11 is what will happen to those who refuse to believe the truth. Those believers in the real God and His Son will only be subject to the Antichrist's persecution. This says nothing about a PreRapture, but is merely a statement about who will be affected by the wrath of God. Read the two verses
9The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. (2 Thessalonians 2:9-10)
before that one and you will see that if they would only believe the truth, they would be saved (as in, this would Pass Over them. Remember the Passover?).
"2c. Will the Rapture hurt?"
Hmmm. No comment by Mr. Hibbs, just some Bible passages that speak of changing bodies without addressing the question of whether an imaginary PreRapture will hurt or not. It's probably a good thing because he would have to give an imaginary answer.
"3.) How close is the Rapture?"
Wow! Except for the incomplete sentence, he nailed that one!
"3a. Will there be any warning before the Rapture?"
Well, no warning except all the signs that must take place first. Actually, since the imaginary PreRapture could supposedly take place at any moment, regardless of any future signs, there are no warning signs at all. This is pretty convenient as there is no way to disprove something we have no way of measuring. The only way we can tell is if it happens, and until it does, no one knows if it will happen or not. However, before the return of Christ when the real Rapture takes place, there are a few things that must happen first - the treaty, the Apostasy, the Temple, sacrifices, the Antichrist, the persecution, the wrath of God, etc. We will know that it approaches by the signs (Matthew 24:3-14
3As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?" 4And Jesus answered them, "See that no one leads you astray. 5For many will come in my name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and they will lead many astray. 6And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet. 7For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are but the beginning of the birth pains.
9"Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake. 10And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. 11And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. 12And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. 13But the one who endures to the end will be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come."
). So, if we stick to what the Bible actually tells us, without conjecture, we can't lose.
"3b. How should we be living prior to the Rapture?"
1 Thessalonians 5:1-9 and Colossians 3:16 express how people should have lived since Adam and Eve. This is for anyone who wants to follow Christ and give glory to the Father. Following this passage will keep you ready for the Lord's coming. This includes admonishing one another along with the teaching of the truth, not myths and fabrications.
"Know for Yourself Why You Should Be Excited"
The Titus passage he gives looks forward to the Second Coming of God and Christ, so as long as Hibbs does not try to tie it to a PreRapture, this is correct.
"3c. Why you should know the difference"
Now, here we obviously have a considerable difference of opinions. This may cause some confusion, so I will address them in the order listed in the box on his pdf. For example, the first comment will involve both Rapture and Coming statements on the first line inside the box. The following comments will address both comments on the next line, and so forth.
First, Christ returns in the air at His second coming, catches up all His saints to Himself, and takes them to Jerusalem where they will reign with Him in the Millennium (Matthew 24:27-31
27For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
29"Immediately after the distress of those days
" 'the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.''
30"Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."
, Zechariah 14:16
16Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, and to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles.
, Revelation 20:4
4I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
). In this one fell swoop, He is in the air, gathers His saints in the first resurrection and from the living as the Bible actually says, and returns to earth in the same coming to reign during the Millennium. You know, this must be magic because most PreRapture believers think that this gathering and coming to earth is not possible as described in Scripture, making the happenings separate events. Here we are told the real truth. This is really not that hard to grasp.
Second, "No one is caught up anywhere"? Matthew 24:39-40
39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left.
and Luke 17:30-35
30"It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed. 31On that day no one who is on the housetop, with possessions inside, should go down to get them. Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything. 32Remember Lot's wife! 33Whoever tries to keep their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life will preserve it. 34I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left."
both say that this "taking" will be "at the coming of the Son of Man". Now, the word "taken" is not the same word as "caught up", but who will argue that, in this verse, they are not the same thing? The Greek word "Harpazo", as we are informed by Hibbs on the pdf earlier, means "to seize or extract by force. To pull up and away from. To catch up, to snatch away suddenly". Isn't that what is happening here? Obviously, some want to find a way to teach the opposite and somehow make a liar of Jesus. I suggest that we accept what He says.
Third, while the imaginary PreRapture says the saints are taken to Heaven, the Second Coming passages do not. You cannot find a passage in the Bible that says anyone is or ever has been to Heaven except Jesus, though many have tried to twist that meaning into some passages. Paul spoke of seeing Heaven in a vision, but even he did not know if it was physical or in spirit, and he never mentioned the presence of humans. And John had a revelation about Heaven, but neither of these men have ever tried to use this as some kind of proof that you go to Heaven - ever.
Fourth, some judgment has to happen if the dead in Christ are raised and the living in Christ are taken and others are left behind. No judgment takes place on the earth, but the judgment to determine who is a saint is done before the resurrection by Jesus when He is still in Heaven, or is done as He descends in the clouds. This means that some are judged to be worthy of the first resurrection, and some are not (Revelation 20:4-6
4I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 4(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 4Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
). If the second death has no power over these, and they are worthy to judge others, then it sounds like some kind of judgment has been made before or during the resurrection of the Second Coming - you know, the first resurrection.
Fifth, according to real verses we have already seen, the "church" is gathered to Jesus "at his coming". According to Revelation 20:11-12
11Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.
, the nations are not judged on earth as "Earth and sky fled from His presence, and there was no place for them." They are judged while standing before the great white throne. We are not told where that throne sits, so it may be that people get to spend a few moments in Heaven before being sent to the Lake of Fire, but the passage never says anything about it. I doubt if we can refer to this as "going to Heaven".
Sixth, the technical term for what Hibbs is saying here with absolutely no evidence is "hogwash". If there is no PreRapture, then we can watch the Antichrist do his thing, watch the signs unfold, and listen to people like Hibbs all day long, but we will still not know the day or the hour when the Son of Man will appear in the clouds (Matthew 24:36
36But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
). That is not what I would call imminent, but we should still be prepared every day.
Seventh, what signs could there be for an event that is never revealed, never spoken about, and never discussed in the Bible? Of course there are no signs for a non-existent event, but there are many for a known, predicted event.
Eighth, according to the Bible, the Second Coming will result in the "first" resurrection of those dead in Christ and the taking of the living in Christ. They will reign with Him in the Millennium. The rest of humanity will wait for the "second resurrection". That sounds to me like the Second Coming Rapture affects only the believers of humanity. But then again, it's only the Bible that says that.
Ninth, the taking of the saints at the Second Coming is the reason for joy and rejoicing. The second death has no power over them. Halleluiah! Those who experience violence and fear are those who did not believe and continued in disobedience to God.
Tenth, for anyone reading the Bible for the facts, the Second Coming, and the accompanying Rapture, takes place immediately after the Tribulation, before the Millennium so that the saints can reign with Him from that time, as predicted by John (Revelation 20:6
6Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
). Biblically speaking, nothing "special" happens before the Tribulation period except a treaty.
Eleventh, Satan is not mentioned? What has that to do with anything? This one cofuses me. Where is there "no mention of Satan"? Since there are no "PreRapture" verses, how could they mention Satan? Matthew 24:30-31
30Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
, Mark 13:26
26At that time people will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory.
, Luke 21:27
27At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
all speak of the Second Coming and neither of them speaks of Satan, yet in the sequence of end-time events, Satan is bound for a thousand years and released. This comment makes no sense. The only way to see this as a necessary sign is to bring that personal qualification item to the interpretation from somewhere else.
Twelfth, "Only those looking for Him will see Him"? Where is the reference verse for this gem? Again, you have to believe in the PreRapture to even have this thought. This is not a distinction that the Bible makes to create the impression of a separate event. As far as the real Rapture at Christ's coming, every eye will see Him (Revelation 1:7
7"Look, he is coming with the clouds," and "every eye will see him, even those who pierced him"; and all peoples on earth "will mourn because of him." So shall it be! Amen.
).
Thirteenth, "the Tribulation begins". Wow. You create an imaginary event that happens before the tribulation and one of the signs that makes a difference between this and the real one is that the imaginary one happens before the Tribulation? I wonder how long it took for him to think of that?
Fourteenth, "Jesus Christ and the bride are seen descending". Again, where is the verse that states this in the Bible? The actual Second Coming described in Matthew 24:30-31
30Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
tells us that "they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other." Now, this may seem too deep for some of you, but if you think hard, you can do it. The heavens are in the air, not on the ground. And, if His elect are with Him, who is being gathered by the angels He sent? That is why 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
tells us that the dead in Christ are raised first, then the living in Christ join them, and they are gathered to the Lord in the air. If the dead are already in Heaven, why would they be raised from the graves? Imagine that, one event that does it all.
And finally, fifteenth, "There is no metamorphous described at all." Well, aside from the fact that this adjective was not used in the Bible as a noun the way Hibbs used it, 1 Corinthians 15:51-52
51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed - 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
tells us that we will be "changed" (the word Paul used instead of "metamorphosis") at the last trumpet. You know, the last trumpet that is sounded when the kingdom of Christ begins (Revelation 11:15-19
15The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:
"The kingdom of the world has become
the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,
and he will reign for ever and ever."
16And the twenty-four elders, who were seated on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17saying:
"We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty,
the One who is and who was,
because you have taken your great power
and have begun to reign.
18The nations were angry,
and your wrath has come.
The time has come for judging the dead,
and for rewarding your servants the prophets
and your people who revere your name,
both great and small -
and for destroying those who destroy the earth."
19Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant. And there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake and a severe hailstorm.
) with the Millennium.
At the end, Hibbs quotes 1 John 3:2-3. This is one of the few statements presented by Hibbs with which I agree, but that's because it came from the Bible and he made no comment to twist it.
Conclusion
As relieving as it would be to believe in the PreRapture, the Bible never takes us to that point. Without adding a foreign philosophy to the interpretation of real verses, no one with a grasp of what the Bible actually says will try to add a concept that creates contradictions with the rest of the Book. That just leads to more misdirection caused by the great deceiver. When you set people's minds on false hopes, and they believe in a lie, they will spend less time looking for the truth.
Disagree? Find an error? Contact us at glenjjr@gmail.com and give us your view.
