Promises and Secrets

A website for those not afraid to examine their beliefs, compare them to the real world, and make sure they fit.

Eternal Punishment or Annihilation?

VIEWPOINT

My understanding is that this Lake will serve as an eternal punishment, in the literal sense of the words, and not just a one time "poof". Let's see what the Bible actually says on this issue.

FACT

Everyone who is not in line with the will of God will wind up in the Lake of Fire.

Matthew 7:21: ²¹"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

Revelation 20:15:¹⁵ Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

VIEWPOINT

Those thrown into the Lake of Fire will be destroyed instantly and no longer exist. God is not the kind of God who would allow anyone to be sent to Hell or punished forever. What does the Bible say?

BLUE VIEWPOINT

The concept called Eternal Punishment is the only one that makes sense from the point of view warning people of the consequences of disobedience.

This is directly opposed to the other side's concept called Annihilation, which not a punishment at all, just an end.

There are many verses that touch on this subject, but because there are so many people on both sides of the issue, maybe it is one of those disputable matters. Here is a list of verses that can be found quickly by searching for "eternal punishment":

This one in Luke 16:28
²⁸ for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

is used by many to say that we go to Heaven or Hell immediately when we die, but then they still believe that sinners are "poofed" without punishment, negating the second resurrection altogether. Some use this verse to show that we will be aware of what is happening to the damned in Hell, but I don't think that's the case or the point here. Even if it is only a parable, the teaching point seems to be the continuing torment and the "I'm sorry I didn't listen!" attitude of the rich man. One of the most important points in this tale is the instructions of where to look to prevent this terrible end - Moses and the Prophets. Modern churches consider the mention of Moses to be a reference to the law - which they say is "done away". Notice that this tale was told by Jesus and refers to the importance of the law.

Let's take a look at each of the passages listed above.

Psalm 9:17 refers to the realm of the dead - a place where everyone goes when they die. It's only speculation on my part, but a realm seems to be a place someone inhabits or where they somehow exist. This is a far cry from the belief that the righteous go directly to the Heavenly realm at death, but all the dead go somewhere to wait for the final judgment. At least, at this point they are still hanging around and are not "poofed" into nothingness. Their bodies are in the grave and their "breath of life" has perhaps returned to God from whence it came.

Definition time

Dictionary.com defines "realm" this way:

What's happening in the realm?

Rather than find out what the Bible says, most Christians think either that, for the bad soul, permanent destruction happens at death or that the eternal punishment begins then. If the complete destruction is immediate, then nothing is going on there in that realm because no one is there to do it or receive it. If the eternal punishment begins at death, then there is no need for a "great white throne judgment" at the end of the Millennium because the judgment is complete at the death of the wicked. Neither of these views make sense when compared to the entirety of Scripture.

Are you sitting on the fence?

Neither of these scenarios offered by "annihilists" for the realm of the dead fit the words of the Bible. Those scenarios beg the question of the need for a first resurrection for the saved or a second resurrection, or even a judgment, the one for the dead "not in Christ" that happens after the Millennium. Help me out here. Either you have a judgment after the final resurrection of the wicked or do not have one at all. Which is it? John says in Revelation that it will happen, so you either believe him or you don't.

Following this line of thought, accepting that John is correct, from where will the resurrected be resurrected? Well, according to the word of God, everyone dies and goes somewhere for "storage" until the time of their resurrection. That storage place is Sheol, the grave, the realm of the dead - both righteous and wicked. If you believe the account in 1 Samuel 28
¹⁰Saul swore to her by the Lord, "As surely as the Lord lives, you will not be punished for this."

¹¹Then the woman asked, "Whom shall I bring up for you?"

"Bring up Samuel," he said.

¹²When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out at the top of her voice and said to Saul, "Why have you deceived me? You are Saul!"

¹³The king said to her, "Don't be afraid. What do you see?"

The woman said, "I see a ghostly figure coming up out of the earth."

^14"What does he look like?" he asked.

"An old man wearing a robe is coming up," she said.

Then Saul knew it was Samuel, and he bowed down and prostrated himself with his face to the ground.

¹⁵Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?"

where Saul had a medium call Samuel up from death (as in "out of the earth"), you can see that both the righteous and the wicked go to the grave (Sheol) to wait for the resurrection.

Well, there is one thing...but it makes no difference

There is one thing that made me look a little deeper into this. The ESV, my new favorite CJSB, and NASB Bibles quote Psalm 9:17 as the wicked "returning" to Sheol:

This kind of implies that they have been there already, then are returned after a judgment. However, according to the list at Bible Hub, most of the rest of the Bible versions say "turned to" or "turned back to" Sheol. Checking with the Interlinear Bible, I found:

Remember, Hebrew reads from right to left. So, this would read "shall be turned The wicked to Sheol all the nations that forget God". This does not address the good that die, but we see that covered in the Samuel passages above.

Sheol is a current destination for all the dead, and future for the wicked

So, the Hebrew and the NIV, my second favorite, say the same. The bottom line here is that the wicked "shall be" (future) sent, whether turned or returned, to Sheol, the realm of the dead. The two terms "turned" and "returned" could be applied in the sense that the wicked who have died will be "returning" to Sheol, and those wicked who are alive at the Lord's return will be "turned" toward Sheol for the first time.

Currently, the dead are awaiting the separation of the sheep and the goats in Matthew 25:31-46
^31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. ³²All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. ³³ He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

^34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. ³⁵For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, ³⁶I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

^37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? ³⁸When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? ³⁹When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

^40"The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'

^41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. ⁴²For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, ⁴³I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

^44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

^45"He will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

^46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

. After that, the wicked will be waiting for their dip into the Lake of Fire. The only confusion I see is whether the Lake of Fire will be in Sheol, or if Sheol is still just a holding place after the righteous receive eternal life, holding the wicked until the judgment is performed.

Sheol is treated the same as the wicked after it is no longer needed (Revelation 20:14
¹⁴And Death and Sheol were cast into The Lake of Fire- this which is the second death. (Aramaic Bible in Plain English)

). Psalm 9:17 says the wicked will be sent to Sheol, but Jesus said in Matthew that they will go to eternal punishment. If Sheol is part of that eternal punishment, it must be made so after the righteous are removed. It may be that somehow Sheol is the location of the Lake of Fire, but the verse says that Sheol is thrown into the Lake of Fire, so they can't be the same thing. Still working on that one.

Using the terms of the definition, something must occur, prevail, or dominate in the realm, otherwise there is no need for a realm to exist. The realm of the dead is where all the dead go upon death. This is the realm from where they will be raised up - the righteous to eternal life, and the wicked to eternal punishment - even though it will be at different times.

What else does the Book say?

Daniel 12:2
² Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

speaks of shame and everlasting contempt, which could be a reference to those who hold them in contempt. But, aren't we supposed to see only good things in the Kingdom of Heaven? This is evidently a reference to the people in the dark place who have contempt for each other - forever. How can you be ashamed or contemptible if you are "poof" gone after judgment? Also, who is holding you in contempt if no one is there? You can say that God is doing that, but doesn't that mean you have to be somewhere?

Reserved...for nothing?

Jude 1:13
¹³ They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.

speaks of a place of the blackest darkness which has been reserved forever.

Matthew 13:42
⁴² They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

speaks of being in a blazing furnace where there will be activity going on - weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Worms don't die, but keep eating...

Mark 9:48
⁴⁸ where

        " 'the worms that eat them do not die,
        and the fire is not quenched.' "

talks about worms that do not die eating people while the fire is not quenched.

No rest for...who?

Revelation 14:9-11
⁹ A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: "If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, ¹⁰ they, too, will drink the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. ¹¹ And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name."

is one of the most convincing to me, speaking about the smoke of their torment rising for ever and ever, and adding that there will be no rest for those who worship the beast...and for those who think that it is just the smoke that goes on forever, look at the second half of verse 10
¹⁰ they, too, will drink the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.

. How can you be tormented and get no rest in the presence of the holy angels and the Lamb if you are gone?

Everyone goes...somewhere eternally

Matthew 25:34, 41, 46
³⁴ "Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.' "

⁴¹ "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.' "

⁴⁶ "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

- verse 34 appears to have sneaked into the list, as it speaks not about punishment but the inheritance of the righteous. However, it provides the contrast with verse 41 describing who will not receive the same inheritance but will receive something. The word used for the length of time each will have their earned "reward" is the same word aionios
for both
in verse 46. And what will they experience for this period? The Greek word used is kolasis (), defined by Strong's Concordance as:

So, if you say "eternal life" means life forever for the righteous, then "eternal punishment" means punishment forever for the unrighteous. As painful a thought as this is for us, to ignore the plain statement and insert another idea is to change the words of the Bible.

"You can't go in there, buddy"

2 Thessalonians 1:8-9
⁸He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. ⁹They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might

speaks of everlasting destruction, which could be interpreted as "poof" if you close one eye and look sideways, but there is the comment about being shut out from the presence of the Lord. Go back up three paragraphs and look at Revelation 14:9-11
⁹ A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: "If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, ¹⁰ they, too, will drink the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. ¹¹ And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name."

. Some would see a contradiction here between this and 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9
⁸He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. ⁹They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might

, but the Revelation verses do not specify how long the session of "the presence of the holy angels and the Lamb" will last. The Thessalonians verse may imply that it ends when they are shut out from their presence, but I take that to mean the "in the presence" session, not the punishment. They are still there, but after that session, they are punished continually, forever.

Why would "punishment" matter to someone who is not there? Taking a little liberty regarding understanding of God's purpose here, what purpose would it serve to threaten someone with something that will not affect them? That's like a wife telling her sky-diving husband, "If you die doing that, I'll kill you!"

But, then again, later on...

Revelation 19:20
²⁰ But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

talks about the beast and the false prophet that are thrown into the Lake of Fire. Nothing here about punishment or annihilation, either one. So, what happens to them depends on the answer to the issue. However, later we see what happens at the end of the thousand years.

Jude 1:7
⁷ In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

again refers to the punishment of eternal fire. There's that word punishment again. Some equate this to what we call punishment here on earth in this life. Death or destruction in this life is one thing, but we never call the punishment down here "eternal". You can't be punished if you are gone.

Still there?

In Revelation 20:10
¹⁰ And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

, the NIV says that the beast and false prophet "had been" thrown in the lake of fire, which doesn't say whether they are gone or not. However, the Greek Interlinear, and many other versions like KJV, NASB, and the NLT say that the devil was cast into the lake of fire, where the beast and the false prophet "are", or "joining the beast and the false prophet" (NLT). If they "are" there after a thousand years, then they are not annihilated. This beast and false prophet refers to two human people, or at least someone who can be "tormented", that will be "tormented day and night for ever and ever". That is definitely not a "poof", and the term "they" specifies more than just Satan being present.

Why else are we warned in the word...?

And lastly, Luke 16:28
²⁸ for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.

has a message that speaks for itself. The gist is "This is not fun. Can you warn my brothers?" The response is, "That's what God has been trying to do all along. You didn't listen, neither will your brothers." If the pastors wouldn't mess with that concept, and preached the whole word of God, I believe more could be saved from the subject matter of this page.

How do we take it? Get off that fence.

O.K. What do we seem to have? There are definitely some passages that can be interpreted as total destruction and being gone forever. However, there are many more that definitely suggest eternal punishment. Since the Bible cannot contradict itself, we should settle on one or the other. As hard as it is on my mind and my heart to think of such a thing, I'm afraid the future is going to be a long, rough time for the wicked. And the wicked are considered wicked from God's viewpoint - not ours. If you don't know the real God or the real Jesus, then you are wicked. Those are the ones who will suffer eternal punishment. (Matthew 15:8
⁸" 'These people honor me with their lips,
        but their hearts are far from me.' "

, Isaiah 29:13
¹³The Lord says:
    "These people come near to me with their mouth
        and honor me with their lips,
        but their hearts are far from me.
    Their worship of me
        is based on merely human rules they have been taught."

, Titus 1:16
¹⁶They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good.

, 1 John 2:4
⁴Whoever says, "I know him,"" but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person.

)

Need a little help off the fence?

Don't just take my word for it. There is a little book I found recently called erasing hell by Francis Chan and Preston Sprinkle. No, I didn't misspell it, the title has no caps. At first I thought it was just going to be a book that was taking hell discussions off the table. However, it turned out to be a very well written book describing how most Christians just avoid the whole discussion. In fact, many just don't believe that hell is a real worry for anyone. The authors go to some lengths to analyze the statements in the Bible that describe hell. If you want to read a straight-forward book that gets to the point and stays there, this one might do it for you. Their main point? Hell is real and you need to address the issue because in the end, it affects everyone who refuses to see the truth and follow it.

"But, then what happens?"

Now, a friend of mine says that he cannot conceive of a God that would torture someone forever in hell. He seems to think that this is only going to scare people into believing in God. I understand that thought, but when the warning is out there and people do not listen, God has always given what He promised, not necessarily what people wanted Him to do. By the way, we all have the choice whether or not to follow the word of God. If we don't, we have made that decision to send ourselves to Hell - not God. I just loaned my friend the book erasing hell. I'll let you know what he says. (NOTE: He returned the book to me without reading all of it. Too disturbing because the subject matter applies to some friends and relatives of his who have died.)

Scaring into belief?

That thought about scaring people into believing, by the way, is kind of a contradiction in terms. If you believe in God and obey, you will not be afraid of Him. If you don't believe in God or what He says, you will not be afraid and will just ignore Him. If you believe in God and do not obey, then you should be scared. For those who think that God will save those who do not believe but are not outright wicked, well, He told you that if you do not believe in the Son, Whose Word is the same as God's, you will not gain eternal life. (John 3:36
³⁶ Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on them. (NIV)

The KJV puts it this way:

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. (KJV)

The NLT puts it this way:

And anyone who believes in God's Son has eternal life. Anyone who doesn't obey the Son will never experience eternal life but remains under God's angry judgment. (NLT)

). Actually, if you look at the Greek, it does not limit the required action to believing in Jesus, but adds a requirement that many Christians miss. While hovering over the John 3:36 link above, look at the word that is translated in the NIV as "rejects" and in the KJV as "believeth not":

The NLT gets it right this time. The word in the Greek is apeithon, and means "not obeying", which causes the wrath of God to abide on the offender. Many Christians believe in Jesus, but do not obey everything He says, which really means they do not believe in the real Him. How should we understand that?

Should we ignore this because John is being too scary? Note that when you read this verse in John from all versions shown, you see the Son as an authority figure, not a buddy who has your back even if you ignore obedience. This message is supposed to get people's attention because of the scary consequences, not lull them into a false sense of security leading to complacency.

Still doubt?

For anyone who does not believe that God will do everything He promises, you should probably read the book of Jeremiah. God sent Jeremiah multiple times to the Israelites to warn them about continuing their wicked ways and what would happen if they did not straighten up and fly right. He warned them that their advisors were lying prophets and that if they followed their advice, they, along with their prophets, would see the consequences of their actions.

Many of them continued to ignore Jeremiah up to the point where they imprisoned him in an old well with mud at the bottom. The king was asked to give Jeremiah a reprieve because he was telling the truth, so the king had an audience with Jeremiah. Jeremiah said the same thing to the king that God had told him to say, and the king just told him to keep quiet and ignored the warnings. I'll leave the ending for you to discover.

Yes, this is Old Testament. But it still means that God will do what He says, regardless of what honey we are served in the sermons of today. You are being told lies by your "prophets", the pastors, and it will have consequences for you and them if you join the slide into complacency. You cannot mix paganism with your worship of God. Don't just take my word for it, read what the Book says, all of it, and you'll see what I mean. Deuteronomy 12 starts and ends with the warnings.

For unbelievers who are not outright wicked

Regardless of what we feel about those good people who do not believe in God, their fate is up to Him. John 6:44
⁴⁴ No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. (NIV)

gives us a clue. If He wants to save an unbeliever, God can draw the "good" unbeliever to Jesus. All we can do is take what the word actually says and try to refrain from inserting what we want to happen because we just can't believe something bad will happen. Remember, the definition of "bad" and "good", "right" and "wrong", are not up to us in regard to our fate, but are up to God. He will do the right thing for all of us according to His plan, not necessarily our wishes. Remember that line in the Lord's Prayer:

We may not like it, but we all ask for it. You take that however you want, but let's try to follow what the Word actually says. Think about it. When you say that you believe in Jesus, it should mean that you believe everything He says, not just the parts you like. If you believe, you will not fear. If you believe something that the Word does not say, or even says the opposite, then you accept the consequences of that belief whether you want to or not.

What does the Bible say?

We could stop here, but there are some other verses that raise questions in my mind about things to do with this issue. 1 Corinthians 15:42-44
⁴² So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; ⁴³ it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; ⁴⁴ it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. (NIV)

speaks about the perishable and imperishable body. The language is such that many take it to refer only to the body of the believer, and it supposedly totally ignores the non-believers.

Then, what's the point?

However, if this is a description of all bodies, and if that un-believer's body also becomes imperishable after it is raised, what would be the reason for this if not to either "endure eternal punishment" or, for believers, "enjoy eternal life"? There is a resurrection of the un-believing dead (Revelation 20:4-5
⁴Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. ⁵The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. (NIV)

) after the Millennium ends. If the purpose is to make them gone, wouldn't it be more "humane" to just leave them "dead and gone" instead of resurrecting them for judgment and then do away with them again? The way to preserve the "glory of God" in this is to realize that He will do what He promised to do, otherwise we would have to believe that He lied. That doesn't happen.

Punish, then "poof"?

Also, some have the thought that, after some time of punishment when the penalty has somehow been paid, then the soul will be annihilated forever. But, then what do we do with the words "forever and ever" in Revelation 20:10
¹⁰ And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

? In a recent It is Written seminar, one pastor said that "forever" doesn't always mean forever, and tried to prove his point by using our slang such as, "This is taking forever...", and other human-based sayings, as an example. I think it means something different when used in the Bible - like maybe "forever".

No one seems to have it all figured out

Another curious thing about the quote from John 6:44
⁴⁴ No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. (NIV)

, it seems to be directed to the believer only. However, since the rest of the dead will be raised also, albeit on another day, there seems to be more to this than is stated in the words. Maybe the term "the last day" in the passage means the last day to be included in the good resurrection. A thousand years later there will be another "last day", and by my calculations, it will last as long as the other "last day", but not in a good way. Staying with my own advice, though, being dogmatic about what is not actually stated is dangerous.

Even Luke
¹⁴ However, I admit that I worship the God of our ancestors as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets, ¹⁵ and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. (Acts 24:14-15 NIV)

in Acts 24 and John
²⁸ "Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice ²⁹ and come out - those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned." (John 5:28-29 NIV)

mention a resurrection of the wicked in their writings. Combining this with the statement of Paul about perishable and imperishable bodies, I get a bad feeling for the wicked if they do not change their ways. Closing one eye so that you only see half of the truth is not going to help.

The answer is still there for us

No matter how confusing the naysayers or the pastors make this, the language in the Bible is clear. In the parable of the sheep and the goats of Matthew 25:31-46, though it sounds more like a prophecy than a parable to me, Jesus relates this:

In Matthew 25, all the beginning stories are something described by Jesus as having been in the past tense, but when He gets to verse 31, the tense changes to future tense as though He is describing something that is to come. Whether it is a story or a description of actual events, it is designed to communicate a message to us. We should receive it as such. When Jesus says "eternal punishment", I will act as if He knows of what He speaks. Then if it doesn't happen like I thought it would, it will at least be a pleasant surprise to those who go the bad way.

A final thought

We humans sit around thinking about eternal life and eternal punishment with the finite experiences we have had in our human lifetimes. God has already been here for eternity, and will be here for eternity. For those of you who feel that God would not punish anyone for eternity, how do you even comprehend the nature of eternity? We have a concept in our minds, but it may not even be close to what God knows and has planned for the wicked.

We may compare it to sitting through an "endless" lecture in college, or a bad delay at the airport, but we honestly have no idea what eternity entails. It may not be even a matter held within the concept of time at all. It may be closer to an endless moment. You know, like a tick of awareness that has no beginning or end, if there is such a thing. That way, eternal punishment could be something that does not extend into time forever, it just never ends. So when you object to the terms used in the Bible to communicate a concept to our feeble minds, your objections may be based on a concept of human invention. We should accept the intention of God and not try to comfort the wicked by easing their minds with some fairy tale that removes their need to escape the reality of "eternal punishment". No matter what it is, I am sure it's not something to anticipate happily.

What do you think?

I am anxious to hear from those of you who see things a different way. Send your thoughts to glenjjr@gmail.com, and I will post them as long as they are presentable to the public.

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YELLOW VIEWPOINT

This is an excerpt from an article by Robert Peterson at Annihilation or Eternal Punishment? that presents the Annihilation side of the argument. (While his intent was to refute each of the arguments the Annihilists present, it appears to be a good summation of their beliefs. I will wait for someone on that side of the issue to make a defense to post.)

Annihilationism is the view that lost people in hell will be exterminated after they have paid the penalty for their sins. Its proponents offer six main arguments:

First is an argument based on the Bible's use of fire imagery to describe hell. We are told that fire consumes what is thrown into it, and so it will be for the lake of fire (Rev. 19:20; 20:10, 14, 15; 21:8) - it will burn up the wicked so that they no longer exist.

Second is an argument based on texts that speak of the lost perishing or being destroyed. Examples include unbelievers perishing (John 3:16) and suffering "the punishment of eternal destruction" (2 Thess. 1:8).

Third is an argument based on the meaning of the word eternal. In hell passages, it is claimed, eternal means only pertaining to "the age to come" and not "everlasting."

Fourth is an argument based on a distinction between time and eternity. Annihilationists ask: how is it just of God to punish sinners for eternity when their crimes were committed in time?

Fifth is an emotional argument that God Himself and His saints would never enjoy heaven if they knew some human beings (let alone loved ones and friends) were perpetually in hell.

Sixth is an argument that an eternal hell would tarnish God's victory over evil. Scripture declares that God will be victorious in the end; He will "be all in all" (1 Cor. 15:28). We are told that this idea seems hard to reconcile with human beings suffering endlessly in hell.

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