BLUE VIEWPOINT
Hi! Great to see you here! You must have a real curiosity about the truth.
As mentioned on the main Heaven page, some research into the language used in the Hebrew text of 2 Kings 2:11 has opened my eyes to what was being said in the passage, allowing the interpretation of the passage to fall within the meanings and concepts of the rest of the Bible without having to make something up to match some unique concept. The subject here is whether people go to Heaven or Hell right when they die. Why would the Bible never outright say something that eveyone believes? In fact, the Bible contradicts the belief, but that doesn't seem to bother most Christians. They continue to believe without proof, even if they see proof of the opposite with their own eyes. Dont' think so?
There is something right there in the wording of the text, in the original language, that gives us a clue. But, since people read their favorite versions and listen to their pastors, they never learn about it. Let's start with the text itself. Here is a passage that is "proof" for them:
As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind. (2 Kings 2:11 NIV)
Looking at the Interlinear for this verse, we see:
This shows the word hassamayim, a plural word, translated into a singular word, possibly implying that this is the heaven where God lives. The proper translations of hassamayim, as you will see is "heavens", and not some special heaven. More on that later in this page.
Well, everone says it so...
Now, going to Bible Hub, you will find 22 different Bible versions of this passage, 20 of which agree on the use of the word "heaven". The NIV is usually my favorite after the CJSB, but the CJSB uses the same English word "heaven" that most of the displayed versions use, with only two translating the word "heaven" as "heavens", plural. Those two holdouts are the Darby Bible and Young's Literal translations. So, by that majority of the Bibles out there, we would assume that it must be a fact that Elijah went to heaven, singular, implying that he went to where God lives. Right?
Then there is reality...
Well, there are those pesky two versions, numbers 17 and 22 on the list, that translate the Hebrew to the English word "heavens", a word usually describing the skies above the earth where the birds fly and rain comes from, not where God lives. Why would these versions do that? Just to be different? Well, it turns out there is a reason for the difference. The Hebrew word in the text translated as "heaven" is "hassamayim" or "hashamayim"
.
You don't have to know very much about Hebrew to find out quickly that any word ending in "im" is plural, as in more than one. This word hassamayim or hashamayim (they are the same word) is also used multiple times in the first couple of chapters in Genesis (really, it is the fifth word in Genesis 1:1 in the Hebrew
(remember Hebrew reads from the right), seventh in the NIV
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. (Gen 1:1 NIV)
English rendering).
So, what about God's Heaven?
So, how do we tell when we are speaking about the third heaven, the dwelling place of God Himself? There is a reference in Deuteronomy 10:14
14To the Lord your God belong the heavens, even the highest heavens, the earth and everything in it.
to the "heaven of the heavens" or "highest heavens" and it uses the same word "hassamayim", but adds a descriptor that makes it special. The Interlinear Bible states the verse in Deuteronomy 10:14 this way:
This phrase appears to be referring to the "highest of heavens". Notice that the word "hassamayim" here in Deuternonmy (plural in the Hebrew) is modified by the term "useme
" which is translated in the English to "and the heaven" rendering the phrase as "the heaven of heavens" or "the highest of heavens" (useme hassamayim).
Please also notice the tendency of even the Interlinear Bible translation of Hebrew to English above to make the plural into singular in the same verse. The exact same word "hassamayim" that is plural and translated "the heavens" three words earlier in the same verse is translated "heaven" (singular), even called "the heaven". This is a direct contradiction of the properly rendered NIV usage in Deuteronomy 10:14
14 To the Lord your God belong the heavens, even the highest heavens, the earth and everything in it. (NIV, emphasis mine)
.
Now, according to Paul in 2 Corinthians 12:2
I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know--God knows.
, he went to the "third heaven" in his vision, once again using a qualifier to indicate it was not just the regular heavens that we call skies. The Interlinear for that verse shows:
He uses language that clarifies which particular heaven - tritou ouranou - the third heaven where God lives. When God's abode is mentioned, there always seems to be a qualifier so we don't get confused.
"It's just a little twist..."
While we can't be dogmatic about it, this discrepancy seems to come from a need to justify most of the Bible versions mentioned above that use translations that imply that the word used in 2 Kings means that Elijah supposedly went to the third heaven where God lives. Looking at this from the point of view of one listening to God without a degree in theology, the meaning seems clear and does not support this.
Then what did He mean?
If God's intended meaning is not clear, then He was evidently not speaking to normal people through the Apostles and His written word. If this is the case, He spoke only to intellectuals and pastors, many (most?) of whom agree with pagan holiday celebration, ignoring the Sabbath commandment, and contradicting the Bible statements about the coming resurrections. This does not match the Bible message of the God I know. As someone once said, "As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord." (Joshua 24:15
But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD.
)
Water, water, everywhere...
So, with all the waters above the waters and waters below the waters, we are not talking about the dwelling place of God the Creator. And, continuing that thought, using the same word in 2 Kings 2:11, we are still not talking about the third Heaven as a destination for Elijah.
For those of you who think I am misinterpreting something here, trying to pull a fast one, check out Hebrew Meanings or an explanation video at YouTube by Jeff Benner. It really doesn't matter where you check, the grammar rules are the same and the real meaning is not something that many declare to be the only place in the Bible that "proves" we go to Heaven when we die or are somehow taken because we are so special.
Where did he go?
Where does this leave us with Elijah? Well, we still don't know the place to where he was taken, but he was still alive to be able to send a letter to King Jehoram (2 Chronicles 21:12-13
12"This is what the Lord, the God of your father David, says: 'You have not followed the ways of your father Jehoshaphat or of Asa king of Judah. 13But you have followed the ways of the kings of Israel, and you have led Judah and the people of Jerusalem to prostitute themselves, just as the house of Ahab did. You have also murdered your own brothers, members of your own family, men who were better than you.' "
). The notes in my NIV indicate that this makes a lot of people nervous because it casts doubt on his "translation" into Heaven. This also means that people do not immediately go to Heaven when they die, which agrees what Jesus said several times. Now, if you put all this together, you get a story-line that matches the rest of the Bible without having to make up stuff without any reason to do so.
For those of you who need a little more convincing, there is a site at Unlearn the Lies that puts it in a little different, but much more possible, light. Remember the discussion in 2 Kings 2:1-12
When the Lord was about to take Elijah up to heaven in a whirlwind, Elijah and Elisha were on their way from Gilgal. 2 Elijah said to Elisha, "Stay here; the Lord has sent me to Bethel."
But Elisha said, "As surely as the Lord lives and as you live, I will not leave you." So they went down to Bethel.
3 The company of the prophets at Bethel came out to Elisha and asked, "Do you know that the Lord is going to take your master from you today?"
"Yes, I know," Elisha replied, "so be quiet."
4 Then Elijah said to him, "Stay here, Elisha; the Lord has sent me to Jericho."
And he replied, "As surely as the Lord lives and as you live, I will not leave you." So they went to Jericho.
5 The company of the prophets at Jericho went up to Elisha and asked him, "Do you know that the Lord is going to take your master from you today?"
"Yes, I know," he replied, "so be quiet."
6 Then Elijah said to him, "Stay here; the Lord has sent me to the Jordan."
And he replied, "As surely as the Lord lives and as you live, I will not leave you." So the two of them walked on.
7 Fifty men from the company of the prophets went and stood at a distance, facing the place where Elijah and Elisha had stopped at the Jordan. 8 Elijah took his cloak, rolled it up and struck the water with it. The water divided to the right and to the left, and the two of them crossed over on dry ground.
9 When they had crossed, Elijah said to Elisha, "Tell me, what can I do for you before I am taken from you?"
"Let me inherit a double portion of your spirit," Elisha replied.
10 "You have asked a difficult thing," Elijah said, "yet if you see me when I am taken from you, it will be yours - otherwise, it will not."
11 As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind. 12 Elisha saw this and cried out, "My father! My father! The chariots and horsemen of Israel!" And Elisha saw him no more. Then he took hold of his garment and tore it in two.
between Elijah and Elisha when Elisha would not stay behind when asked?
Not paying attention
So, what about all those times that Elijah told Elisha not to follow him because the Lord was sending him to another city or place? Did they wind up going to Heaven when he ignored the advice and followed Elijah? Nope, they went to Bethel, Jericho, even the Jordan. Even after the whirlwind event, the company of prophets who saw Elijah taken away did not assume, like many who read the passage today, that Elijah went to Heaven. They wanted to go look for him! (2 Kings 2:15-18
15 The company of the prophets from Jericho, who were watching, said, "The spirit of Elijah is resting on Elisha." And they went to meet him and bowed to the ground before him. 16 "Look," they said, "we your servants have fifty able men. Let them go and look for your master. Perhaps the Spirit of the Lord has picked him up and set him down on some mountain or in some valley."
"No," Elisha replied, "do not send them."
17 But they persisted until he was too embarrassed to refuse. So he said, "Send them." And they sent fifty men, who searched for three days but did not find him. 18 When they returned to Elisha, who was staying in Jericho, he said to them, "Didn't I tell you not to go?"
) That doesn't sound like it appeared to even first hand witnesses that Elijah was taken to the Heaven - or the highest of heavens.
Elisha finally got the message that he was not to follow Elijah. You never hear Elijah or Elisha state, or even hint, that Elijah is now in the presence of God. Another thing - do you ever hear from John, Paul, or even Todd Burpo, or anyone else who had a vision or claims to have "visited" Heaven that they saw Elijah, Moses, or anyone else from the Old Testament in Heaven?
Oh, and what about...
Whatever happened to those scholars who say no one could have gone to Heaven before Jesus came, died for us, and went to Heaven to prepare a place for us? Are they somehow wrong (oh, my!)? These are usually the same ones who say that now everyone goes to either Heaven or Hell upon their death. What does that say about the Day of the Lord and judgment? No longer necessary? John sure thought it was necessary when he wrote about them in the book of Revelation.
So many ideas, one Bible
It is really hard to figure out why there are so many "conclusive", "without a doubt", "had to be that way" theories about something that must have happened, or that can't have happened, that all conflict with each other and the word of God. Isn't it easier to read the Bible for what it really says than to make up stuff you have to soft-peddle, or back-peddle in some cases, in order not to make God out to be a liar?
Remember, God did not have the Bible written only for those brilliant scholars with ultra-degrees necessary to decipher the ultra-deep message that He is trying to get the world to understand. He is speaking to regular people - us.
Disagree? Find an error? Contact us at glenjjr@gmail.com and give us your view.
