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Rapture Disagreement

VIEWPOINT



The Bible never says that anyone, living or dead, will be removed before the Antichrist's persecution or from the grave before the physical second coming of Christ.

FACT



The Rapture is a controversial subject with many believing that the Rapture will take all believers, living and dead, from the world before the Antichrist starts his persecution.


BLUE VIEWPOINT



Comments on Response from Lamb & Lion Ministries to questions about their claims on the Rapture.

Since the response advised more reading of the opinions of others, this is the result of further research. One of the pages they used for explanation was Lamb & Lion Ministries, where I found the following paragraph:

But first, what do I mean by the Rapture? I'm referring to that biblical teaching that Jesus is going to return one day soon to catch up, snatch away, rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:17 - English "catch up" from Latin "rapio" = Rapture), believers in Christ - called the Church - off this earth and up to Heaven to live with Him forever (John 14:1-4; 1 Corinthians 15:51-58; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18). The Apostle Paul comforted the Thessalonians by teaching them that the Rapture is meant to encourage believers living in this difficult age of persecution. Christians, though, will not have to endure the worst time that is yet to come - the wrath of God over a seven-year Tribulation time period (Daniel 9; 1 Thessalonians 1:10; 5:9; 4:18; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-2; Romans 5:9; Ephesians 5:6; Colossians 3:4).

Their own claims are deceptive

Please note that, for accuracy in the quote, I left all their Biblical references in tact, but there is something you should notice. The second part of this paragraph, the sentence beginning with "The Apostle Paul..." makes a false claim about what Paul was explaining to the Thessalonians in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17
13Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord's word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

. His claim is that Paul was speaking to comfort them:

"by teaching them that the Rapture is meant to encourage believers living in this difficult age of persecution." - minister response from Lamb & Lion Ministries

The "Rapture", as described in today's churches, is not a subject of any discussions until mentioned by Nelson Darby in 1830 (see below for more on this). Further research reveals that Darby was exposed to the idea from a Margaret Macdonald who had a "visionary" experience during an illness in the lowlands of Scotland in the mid to late 1820's. During this vision, she was "told" that Christ would return in "two stages". How could Paul have addressed something that hadn't even been conceived yet? Paul was describing to the Thessalonians the sequence of events for the second coming of Christ that pertained to the dead in Christ.

What was their concern?

The Thessalonians were concerned on two levels: 1) that Jesus had already come and gone (His physical ministry) and that they had missed the boat and were giving up the belief that Jesus would come back or, 2) that Jesus was going to come and retrieve only those that were living when He came, and that the dead believers had missed their chance. If you read what the verses this minister's own reference say in (1 Thessalonians 4:13-17
13Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord's word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

), you will see that Paul was speaking "about those who sleep in death" (verse 13), not those "living in this difficult age of persecution". He was letting people know that Christ will not leave the dead believers behind. He was telling them that when He does come, He will take the dead believers with Him as well as the living ones.

Adding something not stated

Also, other than Heaven being the place from which Jesus comes, note that we will be with Jesus forever, but it does not say we will go to Heaven. The Bible tells us the sequence of events for the future, where we will be and what we will be doing. This is explained in the The Rapture page in the Main menu under End Times. Please don't be misled by those who tell you something that is not evident in the Bible.

Misquoting, using fake references

Much of the "information" regarding the existence of the "Rapture" concept before 1830 speaks of documents that are questionable at best. One of the documents called "Pseudo-Ephraem" has both a Latin and a Syriac version. The claims state that this document was written by a fourth century person named Ephraem (the Rapture was supposedly being taught in 375 A.D., and he died in 373 A.D., so the timeline is possible).

The document itself speaks of the saints being persecuted and being killed during the persecution, but some take one phrase in the document and translate it in such a way that it contradicts other statements in the same document. Also, there are references to an event that happened in the 7th century. Pretty clever for a fourth century document.

It says that, but over here it says...

At Bible.ca you can see the references to the persecution of the saints in the document:


It's really hard to inflict indignities on someone who isn't there. One more point before we conclude this discussion. Between the two translations of the document (Latin and Syriac), there is a huge difference in interpretation for the part that many use as "proof" of the Rapture. The same site also shows the comparisons of the translations, presenting this:




Notice that the one on the right (Syrian) actually agrees with the rest of the text of the same document that mentions the saints being persecuted, except those who escaped through death, which cannot happen if they are raptured out of the tribulation. When a document contradicts itself (as does the Latin version), it is difficult to accept as any sort of proof.

Further investigation...

Rather than stop here, I have tried to obtain a copy of William C. Watson's book Dispensationalism Before Darby, but have not been able to do so as yet. (After writing this page I have found some advertised copies of this book, ranging from $25 to $163, but am waiting for a used copy rather than support the cause of something I do not believe is true) The fact that the book is now out of print and is very hard to find speaks to the number of people who are interested in this subject. However, I did find a 34-page article by David Malcom Bennett who did a review of Watson's book. From this article, I was able to see the unconvincing quotes from "the entire list of Church Age writers" the minister mentions in his response to my questions. In short, this article reviews the references to vague and unclear quotes from "early dispensationalists" before Darby. Bennett comes to the same conclusion as I have. You can read the article (as of August 2020) at The Origins of Left Behind Eschatology. His summary stated:

In my opinion, he has not found "Dispensationalism before Darby." He has found some dispensational ideas, but not Dispensationalism. I have found nothing in his book that will persuade me to change my mind about the final emergence of Left Behind eschatology. My opinion remains that the various elements of Left Behind did not all come together until about 1830, with John Nelson Darby at the helm, and with Edward Irving and his friends lurking in the background.
                - David Malcolm Bennett

Based on this review, and the number of people who seem to be modifying the words of "early church authors", as well as those of the Bible, in order to support an idea that the Bible does not support, speaks for itself. People would rather follow an idea that makes them comfortable than read the words of truth. (2 Timothy 4:3
3For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

)

There's more, but what's the point?

There is much more, but when the argument for a concept distorts the facts, reads false claims into the evidence, and adds "information" to a verse in the Bible, that should be enough to discredit a claim. As far as I'm concerned, the Rapture concept, while a thought in some people's minds, was started by Darby in 1830 to put forth a pleasant hope for those who are not looking forward to the tribulation. While this is not a bad idea, it is not supported by the Bible or the facts. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.


Disagree? Find an error? Contact us at glenjjr@gmail.com and give us your view.

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MINISTER RESPONSE TO COMMENTS


For the pre-1800s historocity of the Pre-Trib Rapture, you'll want to read Dispensationalism Before Darby to get the entire list of Church Age writers - Amazon.com.

Here's my take on the "too new to be true" argument - Christinprophecy.org.

It's not Replacement Theology to say that Jews who accept Jesus as Savior become members of the Church. To learn what Replacement Theology truly teaches, visit Christinprophecy.com.

The following article of ours goes into great detail about why the Second Coming happens in two stages - lamblion.com. Titus teaches that the Rapture is our blessed hope. There's no hope in suffering under God's wrath for seven years until almost all believers are killed so that there's virtually nobody awaiting His return. The Tribulation like the Flood is about God's wrath (Isa. 24:22; Zeph. 3:8; 1 Thes. 5:3; 2 Thes. 2:12), and believers in Christ are promised to be exempt from God's wrath (1 Thes. 1:10; 5:9; Rom. 5:9; Eph. 5:6; Col. 3:4; Rev. 3:10).

We don't have to worry about a hypothetical scenario that there will be Christians who will be left behind and so lose their faith, because there won't be any Christians left behind (Rev. 3:10).

This is the end of his response.

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